Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

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Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Tomaž Cerar-2
Hi folks,

we discussed on team meeting in Brno about dropping support for old legacy host controllers
when running in mixed domain mode (having DC of newer version managing older version HCs)

We also discussed dropping old xsd sachems & parsers as it would help us cleanup and simplify code
in many subsystems as there are cases where we support and maintain 5 and more different
versions of parser. For example currently web subsystem has 8, infinispan 7, ejb  & jackorb have 6, ...
We still have parsers that that ware shipped back in 7.0.0 and became obsolete in later 7.0.x releases.

Given that we decided that we are dropping support for running mixed domain mode for host controller
that are older than 7.3.0 (EAP 6.2) as is tracked by https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFLY-3564

I would also like to suggest that we do the same for xml schemas & parsers.

What is the downside?

Automatic upgrading from JBoss AS 7.1.x/EAP < 6.2 version with using same standalone.xml won't work anymore.
User would need to upgrade to WildFly 8.x and from there to 9 or 10 (depending when we drop this)
Because of replacement of web subsystem with undertow and introduction of few other subsystems (io, SM)
this already doesn't work for 7.x-->8+, but we do have plans how to improve that.


So, are there any objections against this?

--
Tomaž









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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Darran Lofthouse
If we can document a way EAP users can use EAP 6.4 and JBoss AS7 /
WildFly users can use WildFly 9.0.0.Final in admin only mode to read in
legacy config and write it as the latest then technically no one should
be blocked if they happen to use a schema version now removed.

A general issue with parsers is we have them loaded for all versions
ever supported, could this be an opportunity to switch to some form of
factory so that appropriate versions can be loaded on demand.

Regards,
Darran Lofthouse.


On 26/03/15 23:13, Tomaž Cerar wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> we discussed on team meeting in Brno about dropping support for old
> legacy host controllers
> when running in mixed domain mode (having DC of newer version managing
> older version HCs)
>
> We also discussed dropping old xsd sachems & parsers as it would help us
> cleanup and simplify code
> in many subsystems as there are cases where we support and maintain 5
> and more different
> versions of parser. For example currently web subsystem has 8,
> infinispan 7, ejb  & jackorb have 6, ...
> We still have parsers that that ware shipped back in 7.0.0 and became
> obsolete in later 7.0.x releases.
>
> Given that we decided that we are dropping support for running mixed
> domain mode for host controller
> that are older than 7.3.0 (EAP 6.2) as is tracked by
> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFLY-3564
>
> I would also like to suggest that we do the same for xml schemas & parsers.
>
> *What is the downside?*
>
> Automatic upgrading from JBoss AS 7.1.x/EAP < 6.2 version with using
> same standalone.xml won't work anymore.
> User would need to upgrade to WildFly 8.x and from there to 9 or 10
> (depending when we drop this)
> Because of replacement of web subsystem with undertow and introduction
> of few other subsystems (io, SM)
> this already doesn't work for 7.x-->8+, but we do have plans how to
> improve that.
>
>
> So, are there any objections against this?
>
> --
> Tomaž
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Brian Stansberry
In reply to this post by Tomaž Cerar-2
My only objection is to spending a lot of energy refactoring to rip
things out, reviewing the refactors, and fixing the unexpected breakage.
I don't have a problem with the general principle dropping parser
support for really old versions.

It's mildly tempting to support the 7.2.0 xsds, as that's the last 7
release. But if we're going to have any cutoff, IMHO keeping the rule
consistent with the mixed domain support cutoff is better. KISS.

On 3/26/15 6:13 PM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> we discussed on team meeting in Brno about dropping support for old
> legacy host controllers
> when running in mixed domain mode (having DC of newer version managing
> older version HCs)
>
> We also discussed dropping old xsd sachems & parsers as it would help us
> cleanup and simplify code
> in many subsystems as there are cases where we support and maintain 5
> and more different
> versions of parser. For example currently web subsystem has 8,
> infinispan 7, ejb  & jackorb have 6, ...
> We still have parsers that that ware shipped back in 7.0.0 and became
> obsolete in later 7.0.x releases.
>
> Given that we decided that we are dropping support for running mixed
> domain mode for host controller
> that are older than 7.3.0 (EAP 6.2) as is tracked by
> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFLY-3564
>
> I would also like to suggest that we do the same for xml schemas & parsers.
>
> *What is the downside?*
>
> Automatic upgrading from JBoss AS 7.1.x/EAP < 6.2 version with using
> same standalone.xml won't work anymore.
> User would need to upgrade to WildFly 8.x and from there to 9 or 10
> (depending when we drop this)
> Because of replacement of web subsystem with undertow and introduction
> of few other subsystems (io, SM)
> this already doesn't work for 7.x-->8+, but we do have plans how to
> improve that.
>
>
> So, are there any objections against this?
>
> --
> Tomaž
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>


--
Brian Stansberry
Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat
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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Brian Stansberry
I forgot to say... is this better dealt with early in 10?

On 3/27/15 10:07 AM, Brian Stansberry wrote:

> My only objection is to spending a lot of energy refactoring to rip
> things out, reviewing the refactors, and fixing the unexpected breakage.
> I don't have a problem with the general principle dropping parser
> support for really old versions.
>
> It's mildly tempting to support the 7.2.0 xsds, as that's the last 7
> release. But if we're going to have any cutoff, IMHO keeping the rule
> consistent with the mixed domain support cutoff is better. KISS.
>
> On 3/26/15 6:13 PM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> we discussed on team meeting in Brno about dropping support for old
>> legacy host controllers
>> when running in mixed domain mode (having DC of newer version managing
>> older version HCs)
>>
>> We also discussed dropping old xsd sachems & parsers as it would help us
>> cleanup and simplify code
>> in many subsystems as there are cases where we support and maintain 5
>> and more different
>> versions of parser. For example currently web subsystem has 8,
>> infinispan 7, ejb  & jackorb have 6, ...
>> We still have parsers that that ware shipped back in 7.0.0 and became
>> obsolete in later 7.0.x releases.
>>
>> Given that we decided that we are dropping support for running mixed
>> domain mode for host controller
>> that are older than 7.3.0 (EAP 6.2) as is tracked by
>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFLY-3564
>>
>> I would also like to suggest that we do the same for xml schemas &
>> parsers.
>>
>> *What is the downside?*
>>
>> Automatic upgrading from JBoss AS 7.1.x/EAP < 6.2 version with using
>> same standalone.xml won't work anymore.
>> User would need to upgrade to WildFly 8.x and from there to 9 or 10
>> (depending when we drop this)
>> Because of replacement of web subsystem with undertow and introduction
>> of few other subsystems (io, SM)
>> this already doesn't work for 7.x-->8+, but we do have plans how to
>> improve that.
>>
>>
>> So, are there any objections against this?
>>
>> --
>> Tomaž
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>>
>
>


--
Brian Stansberry
Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat
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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Max Rydahl Andersen-2
In reply to this post by Tomaž Cerar-2
this sounds like a god candidate for rulesets for Windup to help doing
migrations ?

/max

> Hi folks,
>
> we discussed on team meeting in Brno about dropping support for old
> legacy
> host controllers
> when running in mixed domain mode (having DC of newer version managing
> older version HCs)
>
> We also discussed dropping old xsd sachems & parsers as it would help
> us
> cleanup and simplify code
> in many subsystems as there are cases where we support and maintain 5
> and
> more different
> versions of parser. For example currently web subsystem has 8,
> infinispan
> 7, ejb  & jackorb have 6, ...
> We still have parsers that that ware shipped back in 7.0.0 and became
> obsolete in later 7.0.x releases.
>
> Given that we decided that we are dropping support for running mixed
> domain
> mode for host controller
> that are older than 7.3.0 (EAP 6.2) as is tracked by
> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFLY-3564
>
> I would also like to suggest that we do the same for xml schemas &
> parsers.
>
> *What is the downside?*
>
> Automatic upgrading from JBoss AS 7.1.x/EAP < 6.2 version with using
> same
> standalone.xml won't work anymore.
> User would need to upgrade to WildFly 8.x and from there to 9 or 10
> (depending when we drop this)
> Because of replacement of web subsystem with undertow and introduction
> of
> few other subsystems (io, SM)
> this already doesn't work for 7.x-->8+, but we do have plans how to
> improve
> that.
>
>
> So, are there any objections against this?
>
> --
> Tomaž
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev


/max
http://about.me/maxandersen
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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Sande Gilda
Adding the JBoss Migration team. This is good information to track for
the Windup rules.

On 03/27/2015 11:56 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:

> this sounds like a god candidate for rulesets for Windup to help doing
> migrations ?
>
> /max
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> we discussed on team meeting in Brno about dropping support for old
>> legacy
>> host controllers
>> when running in mixed domain mode (having DC of newer version managing
>> older version HCs)
>>
>> We also discussed dropping old xsd sachems & parsers as it would help
>> us
>> cleanup and simplify code
>> in many subsystems as there are cases where we support and maintain 5
>> and
>> more different
>> versions of parser. For example currently web subsystem has 8,
>> infinispan
>> 7, ejb  & jackorb have 6, ...
>> We still have parsers that that ware shipped back in 7.0.0 and became
>> obsolete in later 7.0.x releases.
>>
>> Given that we decided that we are dropping support for running mixed
>> domain
>> mode for host controller
>> that are older than 7.3.0 (EAP 6.2) as is tracked by
>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFLY-3564
>>
>> I would also like to suggest that we do the same for xml schemas &
>> parsers.
>>
>> *What is the downside?*
>>
>> Automatic upgrading from JBoss AS 7.1.x/EAP < 6.2 version with using
>> same
>> standalone.xml won't work anymore.
>> User would need to upgrade to WildFly 8.x and from there to 9 or 10
>> (depending when we drop this)
>> Because of replacement of web subsystem with undertow and introduction
>> of
>> few other subsystems (io, SM)
>> this already doesn't work for 7.x-->8+, but we do have plans how to
>> improve
>> that.
>>
>>
>> So, are there any objections against this?
>>
>> --
>> Tomaž
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
> /max
> http://about.me/maxandersen
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev

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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Tomaž Cerar-2
In reply to this post by Brian Stansberry

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Brian Stansberry <[hidden email]> wrote:
I forgot to say... is this better dealt with early in 10?


Doesn't really matter, as long as we have policy/agreement in place, some could be done for 9 and rest in 10.

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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Tomaž Cerar-2
In reply to this post by Darran Lofthouse

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Darran Lofthouse <[hidden email]> wrote:
If we can document a way EAP users can use EAP 6.4 and JBoss AS7 /
WildFly users can use WildFly 9.0.0.Final in admin only mode to read in
legacy config and write it as the latest then technically no one should
be blocked if they happen to use a schema version now removed.

Yes I think documenting migration paths is a way to go. Also Windup project can help here.
 
A general issue with parsers is we have them loaded for all versions
ever supported, could this be an opportunity to switch to some form of
factory so that appropriate versions can be loaded on demand.

That is good point. We should address this as well as a proper way for registering transformers,
given that currently only way to do it is via intentionally deprecated API.
Both of this things go to same category, registering / defining extension.


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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Tomaž Cerar-2
In reply to this post by Brian Stansberry

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Brian Stansberry <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's mildly tempting to support the 7.2.0 xsds, as that's the last 7
release. But if we're going to have any cutoff, IMHO keeping the rule
consistent with the mixed domain support cutoff is better. KISS.

Couldn't agree more with this. Lets keep things in line as much as possible.
7.2 users can upgrade to 8.2 and from there to 9/10.

So can we agree on dropping xsds/parsers and have cut-off same as for mixed domain
so anything that is older than AS7.3 / EAP 6.2 is optional and can get dropped.

--
tomaz

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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Brian Stansberry
On 3/30/15 10:58 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:

>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Brian Stansberry
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     It's mildly tempting to support the 7.2.0 xsds, as that's the last 7
>     release. But if we're going to have any cutoff, IMHO keeping the rule
>     consistent with the mixed domain support cutoff is better. KISS.
>
>
> Couldn't agree more with this. Lets keep things in line as much as possible.
> 7.2 users can upgrade to 8.2 and from there to 9/10.
>
> So can we agree on dropping xsds/parsers and have cut-off same as for
> mixed domain
> so anything that is older than AS7.3 / EAP 6.2 is optional and can get
> dropped.
>

I want to hear from Jason on this. I know he's expressed strong opinions
in this area before, so I don't want to presume to know what he thinks.

Thanks for driving this.

> --
> tomaz
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>


--
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JBoss by Red Hat
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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Rostislav Svoboda
Doesn't "anything that is older than AS7.3 / EAP 6.2 is optional and can get dropped." affect https://issues.jboss.org/browse/EAP7-93 ?

Thanks.
Rostislav

----- Original Message -----

> On 3/30/15 10:58 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Brian Stansberry
> > <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >
> >     It's mildly tempting to support the 7.2.0 xsds, as that's the last 7
> >     release. But if we're going to have any cutoff, IMHO keeping the rule
> >     consistent with the mixed domain support cutoff is better. KISS.
> >
> >
> > Couldn't agree more with this. Lets keep things in line as much as
> > possible.
> > 7.2 users can upgrade to 8.2 and from there to 9/10.
> >
> > So can we agree on dropping xsds/parsers and have cut-off same as for
> > mixed domain
> > so anything that is older than AS7.3 / EAP 6.2 is optional and can get
> > dropped.
> >
>
> I want to hear from Jason on this. I know he's expressed strong opinions
> in this area before, so I don't want to presume to know what he thinks.
>
> Thanks for driving this.
>
> > --
> > tomaz
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wildfly-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
> >
>
>
> --
> Brian Stansberry
> Senior Principal Software Engineer
> JBoss by Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>

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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Tomaž Cerar-2

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Rostislav Svoboda <[hidden email]> wrote:
Doesn't "anything that is older than AS7.3 / EAP 6.2 is optional and can get dropped." affect https://issues.jboss.org/browse/EAP7-93 ?


No it doesn't, it is somewhat related but EAP7-93 will still be satisfied.

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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Brian Stansberry
On 4/2/15 4:46 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Rostislav Svoboda <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Doesn't "anything that is older than AS7.3 / EAP 6.2 is optional and
>     can get dropped." affect https://issues.jboss.org/browse/EAP7-93 ?
>
>
> No it doesn't, it is somewhat related but EAP7-93 will still be satisfied.

It's a good point though. Dropping this support has the potential to
make that work harder. It doesn't make it impossible, but being able to
parse old configs in the main server/HC code base might make EAP7-93
work easier.

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Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat
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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Tomaž Cerar-2

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 6:23 PM, Brian Stansberry <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's a good point though. Dropping this support has the potential to make that work harder. It doesn't make it impossible, but being able to parse old configs in the main server/HC code base might make EAP7-93 work easier.


lets talk about this on chat/hangout

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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Tomaž Cerar-2
In reply to this post by Brian Stansberry
As discussed on various mediums (irc, hipchat, mail)
dropping any parsers/xsd schemas included in EAP 6.0.0(AS7.1.2) and up doesn't really make any sense at this point.

It would just make migration efforts harder.

We need to make sure that all old parsers still provide working subsystem as I know some of them have had problems with that.

We could probably go and remove any parsers introduced before AS7.1.2 for example ones from 7.0.x series.
That shouldn't be a priority or standalone task, but if someone is doing work in same area it could go ahead.

If anyone sees any problems with supporting that old parsers please speak up.

--
tomaz

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 6:23 PM, Brian Stansberry <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 4/2/15 4:46 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Rostislav Svoboda <[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

    Doesn't "anything that is older than AS7.3 / EAP 6.2 is optional and
    can get dropped." affect https://issues.jboss.org/browse/EAP7-93 ?


No it doesn't, it is somewhat related but EAP7-93 will still be satisfied.

It's a good point though. Dropping this support has the potential to make that work harder. It doesn't make it impossible, but being able to parse old configs in the main server/HC code base might make EAP7-93 work easier.


--
Brian Stansberry
Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat


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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Stefano Maestri
In reply to this post by Tomaž Cerar-2
Hi all,

I've probably missed the final decision about that. I've worked on 2 issues last week:

- WFLY-4566 Remove support for jboss-as-datasources_1_0.xsd
- WFLY-4568 Remove support for jboss-as-resource-adapters_1_0.xsd

removing very old xsds. I have a lot of tests failing because we still support 7.x xsds.
I would suggest to reopen this discussion and evaluate if and when we are de-supporting them.

I'm sorry if a decision was already taken and I've missed or misunderstood that one

regards
S.


On 03/27/2015 12:13 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
Hi folks,

we discussed on team meeting in Brno about dropping support for old legacy host controllers
when running in mixed domain mode (having DC of newer version managing older version HCs)

We also discussed dropping old xsd sachems & parsers as it would help us cleanup and simplify code
in many subsystems as there are cases where we support and maintain 5 and more different
versions of parser. For example currently web subsystem has 8, infinispan 7, ejb  & jackorb have 6, ...
We still have parsers that that ware shipped back in 7.0.0 and became obsolete in later 7.0.x releases.

Given that we decided that we are dropping support for running mixed domain mode for host controller
that are older than 7.3.0 (EAP 6.2) as is tracked by https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFLY-3564

I would also like to suggest that we do the same for xml schemas & parsers.

What is the downside?

Automatic upgrading from JBoss AS 7.1.x/EAP < 6.2 version with using same standalone.xml won't work anymore.
User would need to upgrade to WildFly 8.x and from there to 9 or 10 (depending when we drop this)
Because of replacement of web subsystem with undertow and introduction of few other subsystems (io, SM)
this already doesn't work for 7.x-->8+, but we do have plans how to improve that.


So, are there any objections against this?

--
Tomaž










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Re: Dropping legacy XSD schemas & its parsers

Brian Stansberry
This post from Tomaz summarized where the discussion ended up:

http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/wildfly-dev/2015-April/003783.html

So, jboss-as-resource-adapters_1_0.xsd can't be dropped.

The jboss-as-datasources_1_0.xsd could be dropped, and the
ParseAndMarshalModelsTestCase.test710... and test711... tests could be
removed. The tests712 ones stay. The datasources PR shows test712...
tests failing though. I think the files they are testing against are
inaccurate though; they don't match the 7.1.2.Final tag.

I'll send up a PR to remove the 710, 711 tests and fix the 712 ones.

On 7/6/15 8:16 AM, Stefano Maestri wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've probably missed the final decision about that. I've worked on 2
> issues last week:
>
> - WFLY-4566 Remove support for jboss-as-datasources_1_0.xsd
> - WFLY-4568 Remove support for jboss-as-resource-adapters_1_0.xsd
>
> removing very old xsds. I have a lot of tests failing because we still
> support 7.x xsds.
> I would suggest to reopen this discussion and evaluate if and when we
> are de-supporting them.
>
> I'm sorry if a decision was already taken and I've missed or
> misunderstood that one
>
> regards
> S.
>
>
> On 03/27/2015 12:13 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> we discussed on team meeting in Brno about dropping support for old
>> legacy host controllers
>> when running in mixed domain mode (having DC of newer version managing
>> older version HCs)
>>
>> We also discussed dropping old xsd sachems & parsers as it would help
>> us cleanup and simplify code
>> in many subsystems as there are cases where we support and maintain 5
>> and more different
>> versions of parser. For example currently web subsystem has 8,
>> infinispan 7, ejb  & jackorb have 6, ...
>> We still have parsers that that ware shipped back in 7.0.0 and became
>> obsolete in later 7.0.x releases.
>>
>> Given that we decided that we are dropping support for running mixed
>> domain mode for host controller
>> that are older than 7.3.0 (EAP 6.2) as is tracked by
>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFLY-3564
>>
>> I would also like to suggest that we do the same for xml schemas &
>> parsers.
>>
>> *What is the downside?*
>>
>> Automatic upgrading from JBoss AS 7.1.x/EAP < 6.2 version with using
>> same standalone.xml won't work anymore.
>> User would need to upgrade to WildFly 8.x and from there to 9 or 10
>> (depending when we drop this)
>> Because of replacement of web subsystem with undertow and introduction
>> of few other subsystems (io, SM)
>> this already doesn't work for 7.x-->8+, but we do have plans how to
>> improve that.
>>
>>
>> So, are there any objections against this?
>>
>> --
>> Tomaž
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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--
Brian Stansberry
Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat
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