Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

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Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

Tomaž Cerar-2
Hi folks,

we agreed that WildFly 10+ is going to require Java 8, given that its release date is planned well after JDK7 will be EOL-ed. [1]

Looking at all discussion and new projects / components already require JDK8 (Eltryon, new WildFly client, Weld 3,...) for development.
I was wondering if we could move WildFly 9 to Java 8 as well?

According to current release plan WF9 should be release around the same time JDK7 is EOL-ed (April 2015) [1]

Pros of moving to JDK8 early:
- components can use JDK8 eariler --> better testing
- supporting JDK9 will be easier (-XX:MaxPermSize fails to start JVM on 9)
- support for TLS SNI (think of it as virtual hosts for SSL)
- better ciphers and many other security related improvements
- nashorn (fast javascript engine)
- better concurrency libs
- easier testing, one less JDK combo to test on CI

and of course all of the language improvements, lambda ftw!

Cons of moving early

- back porting of code could be impaired
- there is currently no non beta release of IBM JDK8

There are probably other pros & cons but in general I think it would be better to upgrade early as there will be many
hidden issues with new Java 8 features people want to use but are server doesn't understand currently, mostly here
are features like enhanced type annotations and default methods.

This problem are and will creep up more and more often as adoption of Java 8 is quite good already [2] and still rising.

so what do you guys think? Should we move for WildFly or should we wait for 10 as planned?

--

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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

James Perkins
I'd vote no. We've already done the core split for 9. I think adding another major change like this is a bad idea at this stage.

On 02/09/2015 01:19 PM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
Hi folks,

we agreed that WildFly 10+ is going to require Java 8, given that its release date is planned well after JDK7 will be EOL-ed. [1]

Looking at all discussion and new projects / components already require JDK8 (Eltryon, new WildFly client, Weld 3,...) for development.
I was wondering if we could move WildFly 9 to Java 8 as well?

According to current release plan WF9 should be release around the same time JDK7 is EOL-ed (April 2015) [1]

Pros of moving to JDK8 early:
- components can use JDK8 eariler --> better testing
- supporting JDK9 will be easier (-XX:MaxPermSize fails to start JVM on 9)
- support for TLS SNI (think of it as virtual hosts for SSL)
- better ciphers and many other security related improvements
- nashorn (fast javascript engine)
- better concurrency libs
- easier testing, one less JDK combo to test on CI

and of course all of the language improvements, lambda ftw!

Cons of moving early

- back porting of code could be impaired
- there is currently no non beta release of IBM JDK8

There are probably other pros & cons but in general I think it would be better to upgrade early as there will be many
hidden issues with new Java 8 features people want to use but are server doesn't understand currently, mostly here
are features like enhanced type annotations and default methods.

This problem are and will creep up more and more often as adoption of Java 8 is quite good already [2] and still rising.

so what do you guys think? Should we move for WildFly or should we wait for 10 as planned?

--


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-- 
James R. Perkins
JBoss by Red Hat

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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

Dimitris Andreadis
There is also the TCK that would have to re-pass with jdk8.

On 09/02/2015 22:46, James R. Perkins wrote:

> I'd vote no. We've already done the core split for 9. I think adding another major change
> like this is a bad idea at this stage.
>
> On 02/09/2015 01:19 PM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> we agreed that WildFly 10+ is going to require Java 8, given that its release date is
>> planned well after JDK7 will be EOL-ed. [1]
>>
>> Looking at all discussion and new projects / components already require JDK8 (Eltryon, new
>> WildFly client, Weld 3,...) for development.
>> I was wondering if we could move WildFly 9 to Java 8 as well?
>>
>> According to current release plan WF9 should be release around the same time JDK7 is
>> EOL-ed (April 2015) [1]
>>
>> Pros of moving to JDK8 early:
>> - components can use JDK8 eariler --> better testing
>> - supporting JDK9 will be easier (-XX:MaxPermSize fails to start JVM on 9)
>> - support for TLS SNI (think of it as virtual hosts for SSL)
>> - better ciphers and many other security related improvements
>> - nashorn (fast javascript engine)
>> - better concurrency libs
>> - easier testing, one less JDK combo to test on CI
>>
>> and of course all of the language improvements, lambda ftw!
>>
>> Cons of moving early
>>
>> - back porting of code could be impaired
>> - there is currently no non beta release of IBM JDK8
>>
>> There are probably other pros & cons but in general I think it would be better to upgrade
>> early as there will be many
>> hidden issues with new Java 8 features people want to use but are server doesn't
>> understand currently, mostly here
>> are features like enhanced type annotations and default methods.
>>
>> This problem are and will creep up more and more often as adoption of Java 8 is quite good
>> already [2] and still rising.
>>
>> so what do you guys think? Should we move for WildFly or should we wait for 10 as planned?
>>
>> --
>> tomaz
>>
>>
>> [1] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
>> [2] http://jaxenter.com/java-2-111936.html
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
> --
> James R. Perkins
> JBoss by Red Hat
>
>
>
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>
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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

Tomaž Cerar-2

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Dimitris Andreadis <[hidden email]> wrote:
There is also the TCK that would have to re-pass with jdk8.


Absolutely, but AFAIR, we got tck update that works on Java 8.

Scott, can you confirm this?

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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

Scott Marlow


On 02/10/2015 08:44 AM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Dimitris Andreadis <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     There is also the TCK that would have to re-pass with jdk8.
>
>
>
> Absolutely, but AFAIR, we got tck update that works on Java 8.

The Java 8 TCK update is for EE 6, not EE 7.  The EE 7 TCK might also
pass with Java 8 (we should try that independent of which Java version
we require).

>
> Scott, can you confirm this?

 From the EE 7 platform specification:

"
EE.9.5

Requirements for All Java EE Profiles

The Java Platform, Standard Edition 7 is the required foundation for any
Java EE 7 profile.
"

>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

Tomaž Cerar-2

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Scott Marlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

The Java 8 TCK update is for EE 6, not EE 7.  The EE 7 TCK might also pass with Java 8 (we should try that independent of which Java version we require).

Aha, this is what i was interested in.
Any chance you can try with JDK8 against current master?

Scott, can you confirm this?

>From the EE 7 platform specification:

"
EE.9.5

Requirements for All Java EE Profiles

The Java Platform, Standard Edition 7 is the required foundation for any Java EE 7 profile.
Yes, but that doesn't say that is the only version that is required.

EE.2.4.1 Container Requirements
"This specification requires that containers provide a Java Compatible™ runtime environment, as defined by the Java Platform, Standard Edition, v7 specification (Java SE)."

Which means any Java runtime that is compatible with v7 is fine, and as far as we know 8 is backward compatible, as it provides all v7 does and more.
 


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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

Carlo de Wolf
On 02/10/2015 11:03 PM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Scott Marlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

The Java 8 TCK update is for EE 6, not EE 7.  The EE 7 TCK might also pass with Java 8 (we should try that independent of which Java version we require).

Aha, this is what i was interested in.
Any chance you can try with JDK8 against current master?

Scott, can you confirm this?

>From the EE 7 platform specification:

"
EE.9.5

Requirements for All Java EE Profiles

The Java Platform, Standard Edition 7 is the required foundation for any Java EE 7 profile.
Yes, but that doesn't say that is the only version that is required.

EE.2.4.1 Container Requirements
"This specification requires that containers provide a Java Compatible™ runtime environment, as defined by the Java Platform, Standard Edition, v7 specification (Java SE)."

Which means any Java runtime that is compatible with v7 is fine, and as far as we know 8 is backward compatible, as it provides all v7 does and more.
 



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[carlo@palantir tmp]$ /opt/oracle/jdk1.8.0/bin/javac -target 1.8 HelloWorld.java
[carlo@palantir tmp]$ /opt/oracle/jdk1.7.0/bin/java HelloWorld
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: HelloWorld : Unsupported major.minor version 52.0

Crock... :-)

Carlo

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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

Tomaž Cerar-2

On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Carlo de Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
[carlo@palantir tmp]$ /opt/oracle/jdk1.8.0/bin/javac -target 1.8 HelloWorld.java
[carlo@palantir tmp]$ /opt/oracle/jdk1.7.0/bin/java HelloWorld
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: HelloWorld : Unsupported major.minor version 52.0

Crock... :-)


Yes my wording was bad, JDK8 supports all JDK7 constructs and more, not other way around.

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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

Scott Marlow
In reply to this post by Tomaž Cerar-2


On 02/10/2015 05:03 PM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:

>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Scott Marlow <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>
>     The Java 8 TCK update is for EE 6, not EE 7.  The EE 7 TCK might
>     also pass with Java 8 (we should try that independent of which Java
>     version we require).
>
> Aha, this is what i was interested in.
> Any chance you can try with JDK8 against current master?

Doing this now.

>
>
>         Scott, can you confirm this?
>
>
>      >From the EE 7 platform specification:
>
>     "
>     EE.9.5
>
>     Requirements for All Java EE Profiles
>
>     The Java Platform, Standard Edition 7 is the required foundation for
>     any Java EE 7 profile.
>
> Yes, but that doesn't say that is the only version that is required.
>
> *EE.2.4.1 Container Requirements*
> "This specification requires that containers provide a Java Compatible™
> runtime environment, as defined by the Java Platform, Standard Edition,
> v7 specification (Java SE)."
>
> Which means any Java runtime that is compatible with v7 is fine, and as
> far as we know 8 is backward compatible, as it provides all v7 does and
> more.

Being able to run with Java 7 is what I get out of either the profile or
the container requirements, both seem to state the requirement for V7.
This sounds like a question for the EE 7 expert group (perhaps they
didn't really mean that Java 7 could be used to run an EE 7 implementation).

>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

Radoslaw Rodak
Mabe this could help… 

javac -source 1.7 -target 1.7 -bootclasspath /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-oracle/jre/lib/rt.jar 



Am 11.02.2015 um 23:23 schrieb Scott Marlow <[hidden email]>:



On 02/10/2015 05:03 PM, Tomaž Cerar wrote:

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Scott Marlow <[hidden email]
<[hidden email]>> wrote:


   The Java 8 TCK update is for EE 6, not EE 7.  The EE 7 TCK might
   also pass with Java 8 (we should try that independent of which Java
   version we require).

Aha, this is what i was interested in.
Any chance you can try with JDK8 against current master?

Doing this now.



       Scott, can you confirm this?


From the EE 7 platform specification:

   "
   EE.9.5

   Requirements for All Java EE Profiles

   The Java Platform, Standard Edition 7 is the required foundation for
   any Java EE 7 profile.

Yes, but that doesn't say that is the only version that is required.

*EE.2.4.1 Container Requirements*
"This specification requires that containers provide a Java Compatible™
runtime environment, as defined by the Java Platform, Standard Edition,
v7 specification (Java SE)."

Which means any Java runtime that is compatible with v7 is fine, and as
far as we know 8 is backward compatible, as it provides all v7 does and
more.

Being able to run with Java 7 is what I get out of either the profile or
the container requirements, both seem to state the requirement for V7.
This sounds like a question for the EE 7 expert group (perhaps they
didn't really mean that Java 7 could be used to run an EE 7 implementation).





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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

Tomaž Cerar-2

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Radoslaw Rodak <[hidden email]> wrote:
Mabe this could help… 

javac -source 1.7 -target 1.7 -bootclasspath /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-oracle/jre/lib/rt.jar 


that already works, you can run WildFly without any problems (that we know of) on JDK 8.
We also run CI jobs to make sure of that.

But WildFly is still compiled for -target 1.7, my original question is whether should we move to -target 1.8

--
tomaz

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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

Radoslaw Rodak
Which means,  dropping Java 7 which is EOL in 2 Months ?


Am 12.02.2015 um 00:34 schrieb Tomaž Cerar <[hidden email]>:


On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Radoslaw Rodak <[hidden email]> wrote:
Mabe this could help… 

javac -source 1.7 -target 1.7 -bootclasspath /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-oracle/jre/lib/rt.jar 


that already works, you can run WildFly without any problems (that we know of) on JDK 8.
We also run CI jobs to make sure of that.

But WildFly is still compiled for -target 1.7, my original question is whether should we move to -target 1.8

--
tomaz


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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

jtgreene
Administrator
In reply to this post by Tomaž Cerar-2
I don't understand the hurry.

On Feb 9, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Tomaž Cerar <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi folks,

we agreed that WildFly 10+ is going to require Java 8, given that its release date is planned well after JDK7 will be EOL-ed. [1]

Looking at all discussion and new projects / components already require JDK8 (Eltryon, new WildFly client, Weld 3,...) for development.
I was wondering if we could move WildFly 9 to Java 8 as well?

According to current release plan WF9 should be release around the same time JDK7 is EOL-ed (April 2015) [1]

Pros of moving to JDK8 early:
- components can use JDK8 eariler --> better testing
- supporting JDK9 will be easier (-XX:MaxPermSize fails to start JVM on 9)
- support for TLS SNI (think of it as virtual hosts for SSL)
- better ciphers and many other security related improvements
- nashorn (fast javascript engine)
- better concurrency libs
- easier testing, one less JDK combo to test on CI

and of course all of the language improvements, lambda ftw!

Cons of moving early

- back porting of code could be impaired
- there is currently no non beta release of IBM JDK8

There are probably other pros & cons but in general I think it would be better to upgrade early as there will be many
hidden issues with new Java 8 features people want to use but are server doesn't understand currently, mostly here
are features like enhanced type annotations and default methods.

This problem are and will creep up more and more often as adoption of Java 8 is quite good already [2] and still rising.

so what do you guys think? Should we move for WildFly or should we wait for 10 as planned?

--
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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

Hielke Hoeve
In reply to this post by Tomaž Cerar-2
We are currently running multiple projects in Wildly using Oracles Java 8.31 without any problems. So why hurry and change the target so quickly?

Regards,

Hielke Hoeve

On 12 Feb 2015, at 00:34, Tomaž Cerar <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Radoslaw Rodak <[hidden email]> wrote:
Mabe this could help… 

javac -source 1.7 -target 1.7 -bootclasspath /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-oracle/jre/lib/rt.jar 


that already works, you can run WildFly without any problems (that we know of) on JDK 8.
We also run CI jobs to make sure of that.

But WildFly is still compiled for -target 1.7, my original question is whether should we move to -target 1.8

--
tomaz
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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

jtgreene
Administrator
In reply to this post by jtgreene
Why don't we start with just moving the PR testing stuff to 8? And then have a one off 7 run. 


Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 11, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Jason T. Greene <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don't understand the hurry.

On Feb 9, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Tomaž Cerar <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi folks,

we agreed that WildFly 10+ is going to require Java 8, given that its release date is planned well after JDK7 will be EOL-ed. [1]

Looking at all discussion and new projects / components already require JDK8 (Eltryon, new WildFly client, Weld 3,...) for development.
I was wondering if we could move WildFly 9 to Java 8 as well?

According to current release plan WF9 should be release around the same time JDK7 is EOL-ed (April 2015) [1]

Pros of moving to JDK8 early:
- components can use JDK8 eariler --> better testing
- supporting JDK9 will be easier (-XX:MaxPermSize fails to start JVM on 9)
- support for TLS SNI (think of it as virtual hosts for SSL)
- better ciphers and many other security related improvements
- nashorn (fast javascript engine)
- better concurrency libs
- easier testing, one less JDK combo to test on CI

and of course all of the language improvements, lambda ftw!

Cons of moving early

- back porting of code could be impaired
- there is currently no non beta release of IBM JDK8

There are probably other pros & cons but in general I think it would be better to upgrade early as there will be many
hidden issues with new Java 8 features people want to use but are server doesn't understand currently, mostly here
are features like enhanced type annotations and default methods.

This problem are and will creep up more and more often as adoption of Java 8 is quite good already [2] and still rising.

so what do you guys think? Should we move for WildFly or should we wait for 10 as planned?

--
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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

Tomaž Cerar-2
That won't really change much, we could do that now and there wouldn't be any issues.

Thing is that our testsuite won't catch anything more as our testsuite will still be using JDK7 features
and as such wont really test how server behaves when JDK8 lang/jdk features are in use in deployments.

I guess first step would be to move PR processing to JDK8 while still use JDK7 for master & master-ignore

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Jason T. Greene <[hidden email]> wrote:
Why don't we start with just moving the PR testing stuff to 8? And then have a one off 7 run. 


Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 11, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Jason T. Greene <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don't understand the hurry.

On Feb 9, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Tomaž Cerar <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi folks,

we agreed that WildFly 10+ is going to require Java 8, given that its release date is planned well after JDK7 will be EOL-ed. [1]

Looking at all discussion and new projects / components already require JDK8 (Eltryon, new WildFly client, Weld 3,...) for development.
I was wondering if we could move WildFly 9 to Java 8 as well?

According to current release plan WF9 should be release around the same time JDK7 is EOL-ed (April 2015) [1]

Pros of moving to JDK8 early:
- components can use JDK8 eariler --> better testing
- supporting JDK9 will be easier (-XX:MaxPermSize fails to start JVM on 9)
- support for TLS SNI (think of it as virtual hosts for SSL)
- better ciphers and many other security related improvements
- nashorn (fast javascript engine)
- better concurrency libs
- easier testing, one less JDK combo to test on CI

and of course all of the language improvements, lambda ftw!

Cons of moving early

- back porting of code could be impaired
- there is currently no non beta release of IBM JDK8

There are probably other pros & cons but in general I think it would be better to upgrade early as there will be many
hidden issues with new Java 8 features people want to use but are server doesn't understand currently, mostly here
are features like enhanced type annotations and default methods.

This problem are and will creep up more and more often as adoption of Java 8 is quite good already [2] and still rising.

so what do you guys think? Should we move for WildFly or should we wait for 10 as planned?

--
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Re: Moving WildFly 9 to Java 8?

jtgreene
Administrator

> On Feb 12, 2015, at 3:06 PM, Tomaž Cerar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That won't really change much, we could do that now and there wouldn't be any issues.
>
> Thing is that our testsuite won't catch anything more as our testsuite will still be using JDK7 features
> and as such wont really test how server behaves when JDK8 lang/jdk features are in use in deployments.

Sure but that will be the same whether we are on 8 or not, because we won’t have time to go adding lots of 8 code everywhere.

>
> I guess first step would be to move PR processing to JDK8 while still use JDK7 for master & master-ignore
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Jason T. Greene <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Why don't we start with just moving the PR testing stuff to 8? And then have a one off 7 run.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 11, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Jason T. Greene <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I don't understand the hurry.
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Tomaž Cerar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> we agreed that WildFly 10+ is going to require Java 8, given that its release date is planned well after JDK7 will be EOL-ed. [1]
>>>
>>> Looking at all discussion and new projects / components already require JDK8 (Eltryon, new WildFly client, Weld 3,...) for development.
>>> I was wondering if we could move WildFly 9 to Java 8 as well?
>>>
>>> According to current release plan WF9 should be release around the same time JDK7 is EOL-ed (April 2015) [1]
>>>
>>> Pros of moving to JDK8 early:
>>> - components can use JDK8 eariler --> better testing
>>> - supporting JDK9 will be easier (-XX:MaxPermSize fails to start JVM on 9)
>>> - support for TLS SNI (think of it as virtual hosts for SSL)
>>> - better ciphers and many other security related improvements
>>> - nashorn (fast javascript engine)
>>> - better concurrency libs
>>> - easier testing, one less JDK combo to test on CI
>>>
>>> and of course all of the language improvements, lambda ftw!
>>>
>>> Cons of moving early
>>>
>>> - back porting of code could be impaired
>>> - there is currently no non beta release of IBM JDK8
>>>
>>> There are probably other pros & cons but in general I think it would be better to upgrade early as there will be many
>>> hidden issues with new Java 8 features people want to use but are server doesn't understand currently, mostly here
>>> are features like enhanced type annotations and default methods.
>>>
>>> This problem are and will creep up more and more often as adoption of Java 8 is quite good already [2] and still rising.
>>>
>>> so what do you guys think? Should we move for WildFly or should we wait for 10 as planned?
>>>
>>> --
>>> tomaz
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
>>> [2] http://jaxenter.com/java-2-111936.html
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--
Jason T. Greene
WildFly Lead / JBoss EAP Platform Architect
JBoss, a division of Red Hat


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