Parallel initialization of more web applications in EAR

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Parallel initialization of more web applications in EAR

Marek Novotny
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Hi AS developers,

 I am exploring the behavior of parallel initialization of web
application in EAR. More concretely more than one web application in EAR.
I know that spec doesn't define the initialization order of EAR
submodules, but the parallel initialization of web application is new in
AS7 and this breaks the backward compatibility for existing enterprise
applications with multiple wars inside. New Java Enterprise  application
6 configuration setting <initialize-in-order>true</initialize-in-order>
 set up in application.xml can enable proper initialization flow, but
without it is not possible to deploy.

Could somebody shed light on parallel web applicaiton init? Original
forum post https://community.jboss.org/message/635123

And details could be seen also at
https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBSEAM-4856?focusedCommentId=12662448&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-12662448

Cheers,

- --
Marek Novotny
- --
JBoss Seam and WFK Productization Lead

Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
Purkynova 99
612 45 Brno

Email: [hidden email]
Office phone: +420 532 294 287, ext. 82-62 087
mobile: +420 608 509 230
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Re: Parallel initialization of more web applications in EAR

jtgreene
Administrator
This is by design, applications need proper dependencies between
components if they share resources/state. Otherwise they can use the
spec defined in-order setting, which effectively disables parallel start
(slower). We have no intention of changing the default.

On 1/30/12 3:59 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi AS developers,
>
>   I am exploring the behavior of parallel initialization of web
> application in EAR. More concretely more than one web application in EAR.
> I know that spec doesn't define the initialization order of EAR
> submodules, but the parallel initialization of web application is new in
> AS7 and this breaks the backward compatibility for existing enterprise
> applications with multiple wars inside. New Java Enterprise  application
> 6 configuration setting<initialize-in-order>true</initialize-in-order>
>   set up in application.xml can enable proper initialization flow, but
> without it is not possible to deploy.
>
> Could somebody shed light on parallel web applicaiton init? Original
> forum post https://community.jboss.org/message/635123
>
> And details could be seen also at
> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBSEAM-4856?focusedCommentId=12662448&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-12662448
>
> Cheers,
>
> - --
> Marek Novotny
> - --
> JBoss Seam and WFK Productization Lead
>
> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
> Purkynova 99
> 612 45 Brno
>
> Email: [hidden email]
> Office phone: +420 532 294 287, ext. 82-62 087
> mobile: +420 608 509 230
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAk8nEsgACgkQU4HO8G8hNxV0jgCfXmgIy5a5mUctcy35Xg8SIky+
> ubkAoOrmfoF7ByaQjUX4Wbfu+3w5sAH1
> =Uv1K
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev


--
Jason T. Greene
JBoss AS Lead / EAP Platform Architect
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
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Re: Parallel initialization of more web applications in EAR

Stuart Douglas
In reply to this post by Marek Novotny
I'm not really sure what you are asking here, as far as I have see you have answered your own question, just use <initialize-in-order>true</initialize-in-order> to get non-parallel startup.

Stuart



On 31/01/2012, at 8:59 AM, Marek Novotny wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi AS developers,
>
> I am exploring the behavior of parallel initialization of web
> application in EAR. More concretely more than one web application in EAR.
> I know that spec doesn't define the initialization order of EAR
> submodules, but the parallel initialization of web application is new in
> AS7 and this breaks the backward compatibility for existing enterprise
> applications with multiple wars inside. New Java Enterprise  application
> 6 configuration setting <initialize-in-order>true</initialize-in-order>
> set up in application.xml can enable proper initialization flow, but
> without it is not possible to deploy.
>
> Could somebody shed light on parallel web applicaiton init? Original
> forum post https://community.jboss.org/message/635123
>
> And details could be seen also at
> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBSEAM-4856?focusedCommentId=12662448&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-12662448
>
> Cheers,
>
> - --
> Marek Novotny
> - --
> JBoss Seam and WFK Productization Lead
>
> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
> Purkynova 99
> 612 45 Brno
>
> Email: [hidden email]
> Office phone: +420 532 294 287, ext. 82-62 087
> mobile: +420 608 509 230
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAk8nEsgACgkQU4HO8G8hNxV0jgCfXmgIy5a5mUctcy35Xg8SIky+
> ubkAoOrmfoF7ByaQjUX4Wbfu+3w5sAH1
> =Uv1K
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev


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Re: Parallel initialization of more web applications in EAR

Marek Novotny
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Well, I would like a confirmation that this behavior is by design and if
application requires specific order you have to do it by configuration
in application.xml. So for every such old application you need to do a
migration.

I haven't found any JBoss AS 7 documentation about it so it was my
question that I got it correctly ;-)

Dne 30.1.2012 23:10, Stuart Douglas napsal(a):

> I'm not really sure what you are asking here, as far as I have see you have answered your own question, just use <initialize-in-order>true</initialize-in-order> to get non-parallel startup.
>
> Stuart
>
>
>
> On 31/01/2012, at 8:59 AM, Marek Novotny wrote:
>
> Hi AS developers,
>
> I am exploring the behavior of parallel initialization of web
> application in EAR. More concretely more than one web application in EAR.
> I know that spec doesn't define the initialization order of EAR
> submodules, but the parallel initialization of web application is new in
> AS7 and this breaks the backward compatibility for existing enterprise
> applications with multiple wars inside. New Java Enterprise  application
> 6 configuration setting <initialize-in-order>true</initialize-in-order>
> set up in application.xml can enable proper initialization flow, but
> without it is not possible to deploy.
>
> Could somebody shed light on parallel web applicaiton init? Original
> forum post https://community.jboss.org/message/635123
>
> And details could be seen also at
> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBSEAM-4856?focusedCommentId=12662448&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-12662448
>
> Cheers,
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>

- --
Marek Novotny
- --
JBoss Seam and WFK Productization Lead

Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
Purkynova 99
612 45 Brno

Email: [hidden email]
Office phone: +420 532 294 287, ext. 82-62 087
mobile: +420 608 509 230
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Re: Parallel initialization of more web applications in EAR

David Lloyd-2
I think it is safe to say that it is our general policy to adhere to
spec behavior.  If an application is incorrect by spec, but happens to
work with one app server, there can be no reasonable expectation for it
to always work.  This is because without a clear and specific additional
specification which explains the deviating behavior, there is no way we
can make any guarantees about compatibility.

I don't foresee us, now or in the future, bending over backwards to
guarantee permanent compatibility of non-spec-compliant apps (whether
the spec is the Java EE spec or any additional guarantees or
specifications we have implemented).

In other words... without this switch there is no guarantee specified or
implied about initialization order.  Our policy will generally be
"whichever order is the fastest possible while respecting dependencies,
disregarding all other factors".

On 01/30/2012 04:16 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Well, I would like a confirmation that this behavior is by design and if
> application requires specific order you have to do it by configuration
> in application.xml. So for every such old application you need to do a
> migration.
>
> I haven't found any JBoss AS 7 documentation about it so it was my
> question that I got it correctly ;-)
>
> Dne 30.1.2012 23:10, Stuart Douglas napsal(a):
>> I'm not really sure what you are asking here, as far as I have see you have answered your own question, just use<initialize-in-order>true</initialize-in-order>  to get non-parallel startup.
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>>
>>
>> On 31/01/2012, at 8:59 AM, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>
>> Hi AS developers,
>>
>> I am exploring the behavior of parallel initialization of web
>> application in EAR. More concretely more than one web application in EAR.
>> I know that spec doesn't define the initialization order of EAR
>> submodules, but the parallel initialization of web application is new in
>> AS7 and this breaks the backward compatibility for existing enterprise
>> applications with multiple wars inside. New Java Enterprise  application
>> 6 configuration setting<initialize-in-order>true</initialize-in-order>
>> set up in application.xml can enable proper initialization flow, but
>> without it is not possible to deploy.
>>
>> Could somebody shed light on parallel web applicaiton init? Original
>> forum post https://community.jboss.org/message/635123
>>
>> And details could be seen also at
>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBSEAM-4856?focusedCommentId=12662448&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-12662448
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>
>
> - --
> Marek Novotny
> - --
> JBoss Seam and WFK Productization Lead
>
> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
> Purkynova 99
> 612 45 Brno
>
> Email: [hidden email]
> Office phone: +420 532 294 287, ext. 82-62 087
> mobile: +420 608 509 230
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAk8nFtgACgkQU4HO8G8hNxVlygCdEVkM8U8/yZa2//+CnQBfihbs
> Ww0AoL20NWPah/e6XOMT1g9Juw5slOpB
> =jivl
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev


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- DML
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Re: Parallel initialization of more web applications in EAR

Marek Novotny
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Ok, that is a reasonable explanation. I think we owe some Warning or
Note in documentation at least in Migration part to our users ;-).

On 01/30/2012 11:27 PM, David M. Lloyd wrote:

> I think it is safe to say that it is our general policy to adhere to
> spec behavior.  If an application is incorrect by spec, but happens to
> work with one app server, there can be no reasonable expectation for it
> to always work.  This is because without a clear and specific additional
> specification which explains the deviating behavior, there is no way we
> can make any guarantees about compatibility.
>
> I don't foresee us, now or in the future, bending over backwards to
> guarantee permanent compatibility of non-spec-compliant apps (whether
> the spec is the Java EE spec or any additional guarantees or
> specifications we have implemented).
>
> In other words... without this switch there is no guarantee specified or
> implied about initialization order.  Our policy will generally be
> "whichever order is the fastest possible while respecting dependencies,
> disregarding all other factors".
>
> On 01/30/2012 04:16 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:
> Well, I would like a confirmation that this behavior is by design and if
> application requires specific order you have to do it by configuration
> in application.xml. So for every such old application you need to do a
> migration.
>
> I haven't found any JBoss AS 7 documentation about it so it was my
> question that I got it correctly ;-)
>
> Dne 30.1.2012 23:10, Stuart Douglas napsal(a):
>>>> I'm not really sure what you are asking here, as far as I have see you have answered your own question, just use<initialize-in-order>true</initialize-in-order>  to get non-parallel startup.
>>>>
>>>> Stuart
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 31/01/2012, at 8:59 AM, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi AS developers,
>>>>
>>>> I am exploring the behavior of parallel initialization of web
>>>> application in EAR. More concretely more than one web application in EAR.
>>>> I know that spec doesn't define the initialization order of EAR
>>>> submodules, but the parallel initialization of web application is new in
>>>> AS7 and this breaks the backward compatibility for existing enterprise
>>>> applications with multiple wars inside. New Java Enterprise  application
>>>> 6 configuration setting<initialize-in-order>true</initialize-in-order>
>>>> set up in application.xml can enable proper initialization flow, but
>>>> without it is not possible to deploy.
>>>>
>>>> Could somebody shed light on parallel web applicaiton init? Original
>>>> forum post https://community.jboss.org/message/635123
>>>>
>>>> And details could be seen also at
>>>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBSEAM-4856?focusedCommentId=12662448&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-12662448
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>>>
>
> --
> Marek Novotny
> --
> JBoss Seam and WFK Productization Lead
>
> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
> Purkynova 99
> 612 45 Brno
>
> Email: [hidden email]
> Office phone: +420 532 294 287, ext. 82-62 087
> mobile: +420 608 509 230
>> _______________________________________________
>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>
>

- --
Marek Novotny
- --
WFK and Seam Product Lead

Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
Purkynova 99
612 45 Brno
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Re: Parallel initialization of more web applications in EAR

Andrig Miller
The docs team is putting an EAP 5.x to EAP 6.x migration guide together.  This should be included in that guide.  So, shoot the information over to the docs team, and it will get in the migration guide.

Andy

----- Original Message -----

> From: "Marek Novotny" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email], "Sande Gilda" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 4:10:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [jboss-as7-dev] Parallel initialization of more web applications in EAR
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Ok, that is a reasonable explanation. I think we owe some Warning or
> Note in documentation at least in Migration part to our users ;-).
>
> On 01/30/2012 11:27 PM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
> > I think it is safe to say that it is our general policy to adhere
> > to
> > spec behavior.  If an application is incorrect by spec, but happens
> > to
> > work with one app server, there can be no reasonable expectation
> > for it
> > to always work.  This is because without a clear and specific
> > additional
> > specification which explains the deviating behavior, there is no
> > way we
> > can make any guarantees about compatibility.
> >
> > I don't foresee us, now or in the future, bending over backwards to
> > guarantee permanent compatibility of non-spec-compliant apps
> > (whether
> > the spec is the Java EE spec or any additional guarantees or
> > specifications we have implemented).
> >
> > In other words... without this switch there is no guarantee
> > specified or
> > implied about initialization order.  Our policy will generally be
> > "whichever order is the fastest possible while respecting
> > dependencies,
> > disregarding all other factors".
> >
> > On 01/30/2012 04:16 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:
> > Well, I would like a confirmation that this behavior is by design
> > and if
> > application requires specific order you have to do it by
> > configuration
> > in application.xml. So for every such old application you need to
> > do a
> > migration.
> >
> > I haven't found any JBoss AS 7 documentation about it so it was my
> > question that I got it correctly ;-)
> >
> > Dne 30.1.2012 23:10, Stuart Douglas napsal(a):
> >>>> I'm not really sure what you are asking here, as far as I have
> >>>> see you have answered your own question, just
> >>>> use<initialize-in-order>true</initialize-in-order>  to get
> >>>> non-parallel startup.
> >>>>
> >>>> Stuart
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 31/01/2012, at 8:59 AM, Marek Novotny wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi AS developers,
> >>>>
> >>>> I am exploring the behavior of parallel initialization of web
> >>>> application in EAR. More concretely more than one web
> >>>> application in EAR.
> >>>> I know that spec doesn't define the initialization order of EAR
> >>>> submodules, but the parallel initialization of web application
> >>>> is new in
> >>>> AS7 and this breaks the backward compatibility for existing
> >>>> enterprise
> >>>> applications with multiple wars inside. New Java Enterprise
> >>>>  application
> >>>> 6 configuration
> >>>> setting<initialize-in-order>true</initialize-in-order>
> >>>> set up in application.xml can enable proper initialization flow,
> >>>> but
> >>>> without it is not possible to deploy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Could somebody shed light on parallel web applicaiton init?
> >>>> Original
> >>>> forum post https://community.jboss.org/message/635123
> >>>>
> >>>> And details could be seen also at
> >>>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBSEAM-4856?focusedCommentId=12662448&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-12662448
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> >>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
> >>>>
> >
> > --
> > Marek Novotny
> > --
> > JBoss Seam and WFK Productization Lead
> >
> > Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
> > Purkynova 99
> > 612 45 Brno
> >
> > Email: [hidden email]
> > Office phone: +420 532 294 287, ext. 82-62 087
> > mobile: +420 608 509 230
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
> >
> >
>
> - --
> Marek Novotny
> - --
> WFK and Seam Product Lead
>
> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
> Purkynova 99
> 612 45 Brno
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAk8nzA4ACgkQU4HO8G8hNxVlQwCfWCv9y09/KayoBM/OTR97xd9Z
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> =WCiC
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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