[Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

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[Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Olaf Bergner
While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.

Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.

What do you think?

Regards,
Olaf
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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Ales Justin
What if you simply removed all sub-systems?

On Sep 3, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Olaf Bergner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.
>
> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Regards,
> Olaf
> _______________________________________________
> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev

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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Olaf Bergner
Yes, that would be easy (I guess), and if I itended this to be a
solution just for ourselves, I would do that. My point is that this
proposed core/kernel distribution might be interesting as a product in
its own right. It's certainly not going to change the world or come
anywhere near JBoss AS 7's user base but there might be some
people/companies out there who could use it.

Am 03.09.12 21:55, schrieb Ales Justin:

> What if you simply removed all sub-systems?
>
> On Sep 3, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Olaf Bergner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
>> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
>> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
>> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
>> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
>> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
>> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
>> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.
>>
>> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
>> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
>> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
>> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
>> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Olaf
>> _______________________________________________
>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>

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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Stuart Douglas
I think it would actually be pretty useful if the build process supported this, and made it easy to produce other cut down versions of AS7 (e.g. we may want a web profile only distribution).

Stuart

4 September 2012 6:04 AM
Yes, that would be easy (I guess), and if I itended this to be a
solution just for ourselves, I would do that. My point is that this
proposed core/kernel distribution might be interesting as a product in
its own right. It's certainly not going to change the world or come
anywhere near JBoss AS 7's user base but there might be some
people/companies out there who could use it.

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4 September 2012 5:55 AM
What if you simply removed all sub-systems?


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4 September 2012 5:48 AM
While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.

Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.

What do you think?

Regards,
Olaf
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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

kkhan
In reply to this post by Olaf Bergner
Here is a document on how to implement a subsystem, it vaguely touches on creating MSC services
On 3 Sep 2012, at 21:04, Olaf Bergner wrote:

> Yes, that would be easy (I guess), and if I itended this to be a
> solution just for ourselves, I would do that. My point is that this
> proposed core/kernel distribution might be interesting as a product in
> its own right. It's certainly not going to change the world or come
> anywhere near JBoss AS 7's user base but there might be some
> people/companies out there who could use it.
>
> Am 03.09.12 21:55, schrieb Ales Justin:
>> What if you simply removed all sub-systems?
>>
>> On Sep 3, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Olaf Bergner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
>>> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
>>> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
>>> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
>>> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
>>> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
>>> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
>>> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.
>>>
>>> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
>>> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
>>> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
>>> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
>>> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Olaf
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev


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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

kkhan
https://docs.jboss.org/author/display/AS71/Extending+JBoss+AS+7
On 3 Sep 2012, at 23:27, Kabir Khan wrote:

> Here is a document on how to implement a subsystem, it vaguely touches on creating MSC services
> On 3 Sep 2012, at 21:04, Olaf Bergner wrote:
>
>> Yes, that would be easy (I guess), and if I itended this to be a
>> solution just for ourselves, I would do that. My point is that this
>> proposed core/kernel distribution might be interesting as a product in
>> its own right. It's certainly not going to change the world or come
>> anywhere near JBoss AS 7's user base but there might be some
>> people/companies out there who could use it.
>>
>> Am 03.09.12 21:55, schrieb Ales Justin:
>>> What if you simply removed all sub-systems?
>>>
>>> On Sep 3, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Olaf Bergner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
>>>> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
>>>> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
>>>> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
>>>> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
>>>> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
>>>> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
>>>> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.
>>>>
>>>> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
>>>> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
>>>> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
>>>> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
>>>> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Olaf
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev


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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Olaf Bergner
In reply to this post by kkhan
Thanks, Kabir, though I already found and read that document. No offense
intended, but "vaguely" is quite a fitting way to put it.

Am 04.09.12 00:27, schrieb Kabir Khan:

> Here is a document on how to implement a subsystem, it vaguely touches on creating MSC services
> On 3 Sep 2012, at 21:04, Olaf Bergner wrote:
>
>> Yes, that would be easy (I guess), and if I itended this to be a
>> solution just for ourselves, I would do that. My point is that this
>> proposed core/kernel distribution might be interesting as a product in
>> its own right. It's certainly not going to change the world or come
>> anywhere near JBoss AS 7's user base but there might be some
>> people/companies out there who could use it.
>>
>> Am 03.09.12 21:55, schrieb Ales Justin:
>>> What if you simply removed all sub-systems?
>>>
>>> On Sep 3, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Olaf Bergner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
>>>> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
>>>> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
>>>> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
>>>> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
>>>> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
>>>> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
>>>> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.
>>>>
>>>> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
>>>> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
>>>> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
>>>> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
>>>> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Olaf
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>

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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Carlo de Wolf
In reply to this post by Olaf Bergner
Some time ago I introduced a build propery -Dminimalistic in the build.
This creates a stripped down AS which you talk about and it was the base
onto which Fedora JBoss AS was created.

With a small patch it works again, see
https://github.com/wolfc/jboss-as/tree/minimalistic. Note that you can't
use ./build.sh as it add ts.smoke property by default, so run mvn directly.

jmx-remoting should be an optional module, but I have not looked too deep.

Carlo

On 09/03/2012 10:04 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote:

> Yes, that would be easy (I guess), and if I itended this to be a
> solution just for ourselves, I would do that. My point is that this
> proposed core/kernel distribution might be interesting as a product in
> its own right. It's certainly not going to change the world or come
> anywhere near JBoss AS 7's user base but there might be some
> people/companies out there who could use it.
>
> Am 03.09.12 21:55, schrieb Ales Justin:
>> What if you simply removed all sub-systems?
>>
>> On Sep 3, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Olaf Bergner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
>>> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
>>> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
>>> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
>>> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
>>> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
>>> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
>>> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.
>>>
>>> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
>>> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
>>> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
>>> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
>>> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Olaf
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
> _______________________________________________
> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev


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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Thomas Diesler
In reply to this post by Olaf Bergner
This probably needs to be a community driven effort. A "product in its
own right" actually triggers an armada of jboss/redhat folks to do
additional work on top of what we put out as a community project. This
would only be done if justified by sufficient interest.

A good starting point would be to modify the build such that is supports
configurable subsystems. From a modular service container perspective
it's probably worth to stick with the standards and use the osgi only
profile.

On 09/03/2012 09:48 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote:

> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.
>
> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Regards,
> Olaf
> _______________________________________________
> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev

--
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JBoss OSGi Lead
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

kkhan
The generate-server-config stuff at https://github.com/jbossas/jboss-as/blob/master/build/build-configs.xml can be used to at least create new standalone-xxx.xml files with less subsystems.

If you want to actually include less modules in the modules dir, it is more tricky at the moment, they are all set up by https://github.com/jbossas/jboss-as/blob/master/build/build.xml


On 4 Sep 2012, at 11:58, Thomas Diesler wrote:

> This probably needs to be a community driven effort. A "product in its
> own right" actually triggers an armada of jboss/redhat folks to do
> additional work on top of what we put out as a community project. This
> would only be done if justified by sufficient interest.
>
> A good starting point would be to modify the build such that is supports
> configurable subsystems. From a modular service container perspective
> it's probably worth to stick with the standards and use the osgi only
> profile.
>
> On 09/03/2012 09:48 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote:
>> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
>> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
>> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
>> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
>> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
>> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
>> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
>> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.
>>
>> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
>> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
>> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
>> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
>> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Olaf
>> _______________________________________________
>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>
> --
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Thomas Diesler
> JBoss OSGi Lead
> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> _______________________________________________
> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev


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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Cheng Fang
Other jboss products layered atop AS can also benefit from this as
well.  Some of them do not need the full-scale AS and chose to stripe
down certain subsystems.  Why don't we add to, instead of subtract from,
the underlying product?  This will be something similar to GlassFish
nucleus, which is shared by GlassFish server, MQ, and some other
middleware components.

Cheng

On 9/4/12 7:20 AM, Kabir Khan wrote:

> The generate-server-config stuff at https://github.com/jbossas/jboss-as/blob/master/build/build-configs.xml can be used to at least create new standalone-xxx.xml files with less subsystems.
>
> If you want to actually include less modules in the modules dir, it is more tricky at the moment, they are all set up by https://github.com/jbossas/jboss-as/blob/master/build/build.xml
>
>
> On 4 Sep 2012, at 11:58, Thomas Diesler wrote:
>
>> This probably needs to be a community driven effort. A "product in its
>> own right" actually triggers an armada of jboss/redhat folks to do
>> additional work on top of what we put out as a community project. This
>> would only be done if justified by sufficient interest.
>>
>> A good starting point would be to modify the build such that is supports
>> configurable subsystems. From a modular service container perspective
>> it's probably worth to stick with the standards and use the osgi only
>> profile.
>>
>> On 09/03/2012 09:48 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote:
>>> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
>>> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
>>> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
>>> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
>>> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
>>> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
>>> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
>>> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.
>>>
>>> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
>>> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
>>> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
>>> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
>>> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Olaf
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>> --
>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Thomas Diesler
>> JBoss OSGi Lead
>> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev

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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Olaf Bergner
In reply to this post by Carlo de Wolf
Carlo, thanks for the pointers. I'll have a look at minimalistic build
once my day job grants me sufficient time.

Am 04.09.12 10:24, schrieb Carlo de Wolf:

> Some time ago I introduced a build propery -Dminimalistic in the
> build. This creates a stripped down AS which you talk about and it was
> the base onto which Fedora JBoss AS was created.
>
> With a small patch it works again, see
> https://github.com/wolfc/jboss-as/tree/minimalistic. Note that you
> can't use ./build.sh as it add ts.smoke property by default, so run
> mvn directly.
>
> jmx-remoting should be an optional module, but I have not looked too
> deep.
>
> Carlo
>
> On 09/03/2012 10:04 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote:
>> Yes, that would be easy (I guess), and if I itended this to be a
>> solution just for ourselves, I would do that. My point is that this
>> proposed core/kernel distribution might be interesting as a product in
>> its own right. It's certainly not going to change the world or come
>> anywhere near JBoss AS 7's user base but there might be some
>> people/companies out there who could use it.
>>
>> Am 03.09.12 21:55, schrieb Ales Justin:
>>> What if you simply removed all sub-systems?
>>>
>>> On Sep 3, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Olaf Bergner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
>>>> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need
>>>> for a
>>>> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
>>>> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our
>>>> networked
>>>> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
>>>> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration
>>>> model and
>>>> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
>>>> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit
>>>> the bill.
>>>>
>>>> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
>>>> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the
>>>> Modular
>>>> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
>>>> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
>>>> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide
>>>> those.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Olaf
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>
>
>

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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Olaf Bergner
In reply to this post by Thomas Diesler
Yes, I was afraid this would have some repercussions. Anyway, I think as
a starter it might be sufficient if the build system supported creating
a minimal distribution. Using the term "product" was probably a little
premature.

Using OSGi instead of the Modular Service Container programming model
directly is a good point. I'll look into it and will see how it works.

Am 04.09.12 12:58, schrieb Thomas Diesler:

> This probably needs to be a community driven effort. A "product in its
> own right" actually triggers an armada of jboss/redhat folks to do
> additional work on top of what we put out as a community project. This
> would only be done if justified by sufficient interest.
>
> A good starting point would be to modify the build such that is
> supports configurable subsystems. From a modular service container
> perspective it's probably worth to stick with the standards and use
> the osgi only profile.
>
> On 09/03/2012 09:48 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote:
>> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
>> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
>> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
>> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
>> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
>> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
>> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
>> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the
>> bill.
>>
>> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
>> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
>> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
>> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
>> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Olaf
>> _______________________________________________
>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>

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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Thomas Diesler
In reply to this post by Thomas Diesler
I agree, that there is value in a modular build. Its tracked by [AS7-5494] Add support for a modular AS7 build

It would also allow other projects to decouple from the AS7 release cycle and provide a minimalistic runtime to support their stuff. Specifically, I'm interested to go back to a more predictable release cycle for the jbosgi and again include a standalone runtime with our distribution. The runtime would be AS7 based, include the osgi subsystem and possibly other subsystems we integrate with (e.g. naming, transaction, jmx, web, ...)

On 09/04/2012 12:58 PM, Thomas Diesler wrote:
This probably needs to be a community driven effort. A "product in its own right" actually triggers an armada of jboss/redhat folks to do additional work on top of what we put out as a community project. This would only be done if justified by sufficient interest.

A good starting point would be to modify the build such that is supports configurable subsystems. From a modular service container perspective it's probably worth to stick with the standards and use the osgi only profile.

On 09/03/2012 09:48 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote:
While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.

Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.

What do you think?

Regards,
Olaf
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JBoss OSGi Lead
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Olaf Bergner
That sounds reasonable. Time permitting, I might try to lend a hand. The only downside I see that as a developer building an application on this platform using the OSGi programming model I won't be able to employ JBoss AS 7's configuration model for my needs. Or am I mistaken in this? Maybe a custom configuration admin implementation that delegates to JBoss AS 7's built-in mechanism ...

On the other hand I do understand why one might be reluctant to introduce yet another programming model to a wider audience.

Am 05.09.12 10:36, schrieb Thomas Diesler:
I agree, that there is value in a modular build. Its tracked by [AS7-5494] Add support for a modular AS7 build

It would also allow other projects to decouple from the AS7 release cycle and provide a minimalistic runtime to support their stuff. Specifically, I'm interested to go back to a more predictable release cycle for the jbosgi and again include a standalone runtime with our distribution. The runtime would be AS7 based, include the osgi subsystem and possibly other subsystems we integrate with (e.g. naming, transaction, jmx, web, ...)

On 09/04/2012 12:58 PM, Thomas Diesler wrote:
This probably needs to be a community driven effort. A "product in its own right" actually triggers an armada of jboss/redhat folks to do additional work on top of what we put out as a community project. This would only be done if justified by sufficient interest.

A good starting point would be to modify the build such that is supports configurable subsystems. From a modular service container perspective it's probably worth to stick with the standards and use the osgi only profile.

On 09/03/2012 09:48 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote:
While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.

Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.

What do you think?

Regards,
Olaf
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[hidden email]
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev


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xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thomas Diesler
JBoss OSGi Lead
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 


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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Thomas Diesler
> using the OSGi programming model I won't be able to employ JBoss AS 7's configuration model for my needs. Or am I mistaken in this?

Right from the beginning I copied the semantics from ConfigurationAdmin and made it available as a native AS7 service - its the configadmin subsystem that does this. In fact when you use the Felix ConfigurationAdmin it delegates to this services and your configurations are maintained as part of the AS7 domain model. Hence they are exposed through the management API and therefore visible in the web console and cli.

> On the other hand I do understand why one might be reluctant to introduce yet another programming model to a wider audience.

I recommend to stick with the EE programming model when you can. If your requirements are such that you need to have modular applications that can be developed by disconnected teams, need to have lifecycle with your components (i.e. start/stop/update) or loose coupling of dynamic services I'd go with the OSGi standard.

In AS7 you can mix both worlds i.e. access OSGi services from EE components and vice versa. You can for example architect a complex web application as a collection of bundles, each dedicated to a specific functionality. These plugin bundles can be added/updated/removed on the fly with your webapp reacting accordingly. Additionally, you can start/stop the web context without having to undeploy the archive. Have a look at [AS7-5051] Allow EE deployments as OSGi bundles for more like this.

--thomas

On 09/06/2012 08:24 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote:
That sounds reasonable. Time permitting, I might try to lend a hand. The only downside I see that as a developer building an application on this platform using the OSGi programming model I won't be able to employ JBoss AS 7's configuration model for my needs. Or am I mistaken in this? Maybe a custom configuration admin implementation that delegates to JBoss AS 7's built-in mechanism ...

On the other hand I do understand why one might be reluctant to introduce yet another programming model to a wider audience.

Am 05.09.12 10:36, schrieb Thomas Diesler:
I agree, that there is value in a modular build. Its tracked by [AS7-5494] Add support for a modular AS7 build

It would also allow other projects to decouple from the AS7 release cycle and provide a minimalistic runtime to support their stuff. Specifically, I'm interested to go back to a more predictable release cycle for the jbosgi and again include a standalone runtime with our distribution. The runtime would be AS7 based, include the osgi subsystem and possibly other subsystems we integrate with (e.g. naming, transaction, jmx, web, ...)

On 09/04/2012 12:58 PM, Thomas Diesler wrote:
This probably needs to be a community driven effort. A "product in its own right" actually triggers an armada of jboss/redhat folks to do additional work on top of what we put out as a community project. This would only be done if justified by sufficient interest.

A good starting point would be to modify the build such that is supports configurable subsystems. From a modular service container perspective it's probably worth to stick with the standards and use the osgi only profile.

On 09/03/2012 09:48 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote:
While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.

Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.

What do you think?

Regards,
Olaf
_______________________________________________
jboss-as7-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev


-- 
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thomas Diesler
JBoss OSGi Lead
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 


-- 
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thomas Diesler
JBoss OSGi Lead
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

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Re: [Proposal] Create minimal distribution as generic service container

Olaf Bergner
Thomas, thank you for your clarifications. Ours being a rather technical domain that's completely outside the nowadays usual HTTP centric space we lean heavily towards OSGi rather than JEE. That we would nonetheless be able to use the CLI and the web console is welcome news. Keep up the excellent work.

Olaf

Am 07.09.12 09:32, schrieb Thomas Diesler:
> using the OSGi programming model I won't be able to employ JBoss AS 7's configuration model for my needs. Or am I mistaken in this?

Right from the beginning I copied the semantics from ConfigurationAdmin and made it available as a native AS7 service - its the configadmin subsystem that does this. In fact when you use the Felix ConfigurationAdmin it delegates to this services and your configurations are maintained as part of the AS7 domain model. Hence they are exposed through the management API and therefore visible in the web console and cli.

> On the other hand I do understand why one might be reluctant to introduce yet another programming model to a wider audience.

I recommend to stick with the EE programming model when you can. If your requirements are such that you need to have modular applications that can be developed by disconnected teams, need to have lifecycle with your components (i.e. start/stop/update) or loose coupling of dynamic services I'd go with the OSGi standard.

In AS7 you can mix both worlds i.e. access OSGi services from EE components and vice versa. You can for example architect a complex web application as a collection of bundles, each dedicated to a specific functionality. These plugin bundles can be added/updated/removed on the fly with your webapp reacting accordingly. Additionally, you can start/stop the web context without having to undeploy the archive. Have a look at [AS7-5051] Allow EE deployments as OSGi bundles for more like this.

--thomas

On 09/06/2012 08:24 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote:
That sounds reasonable. Time permitting, I might try to lend a hand. The only downside I see that as a developer building an application on this platform using the OSGi programming model I won't be able to employ JBoss AS 7's configuration model for my needs. Or am I mistaken in this? Maybe a custom configuration admin implementation that delegates to JBoss AS 7's built-in mechanism ...

On the other hand I do understand why one might be reluctant to introduce yet another programming model to a wider audience.

Am 05.09.12 10:36, schrieb Thomas Diesler:
I agree, that there is value in a modular build. Its tracked by [AS7-5494] Add support for a modular AS7 build

It would also allow other projects to decouple from the AS7 release cycle and provide a minimalistic runtime to support their stuff. Specifically, I'm interested to go back to a more predictable release cycle for the jbosgi and again include a standalone runtime with our distribution. The runtime would be AS7 based, include the osgi subsystem and possibly other subsystems we integrate with (e.g. naming, transaction, jmx, web, ...)

On 09/04/2012 12:58 PM, Thomas Diesler wrote:
This probably needs to be a community driven effort. A "product in its own right" actually triggers an armada of jboss/redhat folks to do additional work on top of what we put out as a community project. This would only be done if justified by sufficient interest.

A good starting point would be to modify the build such that is supports configurable subsystems. From a modular service container perspective it's probably worth to stick with the standards and use the osgi only profile.

On 09/03/2012 09:48 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote:
While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are
outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a
JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust,
performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked
services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service
Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and
the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a
JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill.

Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would
take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular
Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for.
Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know
volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those.

What do you think?

Regards,
Olaf
_______________________________________________
jboss-as7-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev


-- 
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thomas Diesler
JBoss OSGi Lead
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 


-- 
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thomas Diesler
JBoss OSGi Lead
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 


_______________________________________________
jboss-as7-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev