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allow-resource-service-restart=true

Martin Stefanko

Hi,

I am looking for help with the usage of the allow-resource-service-restart header. For the following examples each attribute is a boolean with "restart-required" set to "no-services".

When I run

/subsystem=jmx:write-attribute(name=non-core-mbean-sensitivity,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}

it works as expected, but

/subsystem=undertow:write-attribute(name=statistics-enabled,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}

for instance, puts the server into the reload-required state.

This is happening on several other places so I want to ask if it is a desired behavior.


Martin Stefanko

Associate Software Engineer
JBoss Sustaining Engineering Team
Red Hat Czech s.r.o.

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Re: allow-resource-service-restart=true

kkhan
Not all operations handle the allow-service-restart header

> On 4 Nov 2016, at 15:09, Martin Stefanko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am looking for help with the usage of the allow-resource-service-restart header. For the following examples each attribute is a boolean with "restart-required" set to "no-services".
>
> When I run
>
> /subsystem=jmx:write-attribute(name=non-core-mbean-sensitivity,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>
> it works as expected, but
>
> /subsystem=undertow:write-attribute(name=statistics-enabled,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>
> for instance, puts the server into the reload-required state.
>
> This is happening on several other places so I want to ask if it is a desired behavior.
>
>
> Martin Stefanko
>
> Associate Software Engineer
> JBoss Sustaining Engineering Team
> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev


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Re: allow-resource-service-restart=true

Ondrej Kotek
Is there any way how to recognize whether an operation handles the allow-service-restart header please? (Other way than trying it.)

 Ondra


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kabir Khan" <[hidden email]>
To: "Martin Stefanko" <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2016 4:38:27 PM
Subject: Re: [wildfly-dev] allow-resource-service-restart=true

Not all operations handle the allow-service-restart header

> On 4 Nov 2016, at 15:09, Martin Stefanko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am looking for help with the usage of the allow-resource-service-restart header. For the following examples each attribute is a boolean with "restart-required" set to "no-services".
>
> When I run
>
> /subsystem=jmx:write-attribute(name=non-core-mbean-sensitivity,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>
> it works as expected, but
>
> /subsystem=undertow:write-attribute(name=statistics-enabled,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>
> for instance, puts the server into the reload-required state.
>
> This is happening on several other places so I want to ask if it is a desired behavior.
>
>
> Martin Stefanko
>
> Associate Software Engineer
> JBoss Sustaining Engineering Team
> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev


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Re: allow-resource-service-restart=true

Brian Stansberry
See “restart-required” in the “Description of an Operation” section of https://docs.jboss.org/author/display/WFLY/Description+of+the+Management+Model

> On Nov 7, 2016, at 1:20 AM, Ondrej Kotek <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Is there any way how to recognize whether an operation handles the allow-service-restart header please? (Other way than trying it.)
>
> Ondra
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kabir Khan" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Martin Stefanko" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, November 4, 2016 4:38:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [wildfly-dev] allow-resource-service-restart=true
>
> Not all operations handle the allow-service-restart header
>> On 4 Nov 2016, at 15:09, Martin Stefanko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am looking for help with the usage of the allow-resource-service-restart header. For the following examples each attribute is a boolean with "restart-required" set to "no-services".
>>
>> When I run
>>
>> /subsystem=jmx:write-attribute(name=non-core-mbean-sensitivity,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>>
>> it works as expected, but
>>
>> /subsystem=undertow:write-attribute(name=statistics-enabled,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>>
>> for instance, puts the server into the reload-required state.
>>
>> This is happening on several other places so I want to ask if it is a desired behavior.
>>
>>
>> Martin Stefanko
>>
>> Associate Software Engineer
>> JBoss Sustaining Engineering Team
>> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev

--
Brian Stansberry
Manager, Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat




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Re: allow-resource-service-restart=true

Ondrej Kotek
Thanks a lot, Brian. I understand the referenced documentation as following:

In case an attribute has "restart-required" => "resource-services" descriptor, when I change/write the attribute using "allow-resource-service-restart" => true request header, then the handler for the operation (write attribute) HAVE TO go ahead and restart the runtime service. In case the handler do not restart the service, it is a bug.

Do I understand it well please?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Stansberry" <[hidden email]>
To: "Ondrej Kotek" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Kabir Khan" <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, November 7, 2016 3:43:22 PM
Subject: Re: [wildfly-dev] allow-resource-service-restart=true

See “restart-required” in the “Description of an Operation” section of https://docs.jboss.org/author/display/WFLY/Description+of+the+Management+Model

> On Nov 7, 2016, at 1:20 AM, Ondrej Kotek <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Is there any way how to recognize whether an operation handles the allow-service-restart header please? (Other way than trying it.)
>
> Ondra
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kabir Khan" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Martin Stefanko" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, November 4, 2016 4:38:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [wildfly-dev] allow-resource-service-restart=true
>
> Not all operations handle the allow-service-restart header
>> On 4 Nov 2016, at 15:09, Martin Stefanko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am looking for help with the usage of the allow-resource-service-restart header. For the following examples each attribute is a boolean with "restart-required" set to "no-services".
>>
>> When I run
>>
>> /subsystem=jmx:write-attribute(name=non-core-mbean-sensitivity,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>>
>> it works as expected, but
>>
>> /subsystem=undertow:write-attribute(name=statistics-enabled,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>>
>> for instance, puts the server into the reload-required state.
>>
>> This is happening on several other places so I want to ask if it is a desired behavior.
>>
>>
>> Martin Stefanko
>>
>> Associate Software Engineer
>> JBoss Sustaining Engineering Team
>> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev

--
Brian Stansberry
Manager, Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat




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Re: allow-resource-service-restart=true

Brian Stansberry
Yes. The exception being when the behavior implemented in https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFCORE-1106 takes precedence. But if you have a server that isn’t in reload required and then what you described happens, it’s a bug.

> On Nov 7, 2016, at 9:28 AM, Ondrej Kotek <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot, Brian. I understand the referenced documentation as following:
>
> In case an attribute has "restart-required" => "resource-services" descriptor, when I change/write the attribute using "allow-resource-service-restart" => true request header, then the handler for the operation (write attribute) HAVE TO go ahead and restart the runtime service. In case the handler do not restart the service, it is a bug.
>
> Do I understand it well please?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Stansberry" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Ondrej Kotek" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Kabir Khan" <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
> Sent: Monday, November 7, 2016 3:43:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [wildfly-dev] allow-resource-service-restart=true
>
> See “restart-required” in the “Description of an Operation” section of https://docs.jboss.org/author/display/WFLY/Description+of+the+Management+Model
>
>> On Nov 7, 2016, at 1:20 AM, Ondrej Kotek <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Is there any way how to recognize whether an operation handles the allow-service-restart header please? (Other way than trying it.)
>>
>> Ondra
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kabir Khan" <[hidden email]>
>> To: "Martin Stefanko" <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: [hidden email]
>> Sent: Friday, November 4, 2016 4:38:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [wildfly-dev] allow-resource-service-restart=true
>>
>> Not all operations handle the allow-service-restart header
>>> On 4 Nov 2016, at 15:09, Martin Stefanko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am looking for help with the usage of the allow-resource-service-restart header. For the following examples each attribute is a boolean with "restart-required" set to "no-services".
>>>
>>> When I run
>>>
>>> /subsystem=jmx:write-attribute(name=non-core-mbean-sensitivity,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>>>
>>> it works as expected, but
>>>
>>> /subsystem=undertow:write-attribute(name=statistics-enabled,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>>>
>>> for instance, puts the server into the reload-required state.
>>>
>>> This is happening on several other places so I want to ask if it is a desired behavior.
>>>
>>>
>>> Martin Stefanko
>>>
>>> Associate Software Engineer
>>> JBoss Sustaining Engineering Team
>>> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
> --
> Brian Stansberry
> Manager, Senior Principal Software Engineer
> JBoss by Red Hat
>
>
>

--
Brian Stansberry
Manager, Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat




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Re: allow-resource-service-restart=true

Rostislav Svoboda
In reply to this post by kkhan

> Not all operations handle the allow-service-restart header

Sure, atm it depends a bit on the underlying service.

@statistics-enabled
Shouldn't be the goal to enable & disable stats without reload or restart required at all ?
There are some people/customers which restart or reload their farm of servers only on planned days.
For example for WS subsystem we can enable and disable without reload required, allow-resource-service-restart is to me just helper to avoid full reload.

@Reduce reload-required in general
I think some long-term effort is needed, less reload-required is better for end-user experience.
This probably needs to be more RFE-ish.

Regards.
Rostislav

> > On 4 Nov 2016, at 15:09, Martin Stefanko <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am looking for help with the usage of the allow-resource-service-restart
> > header. For the following examples each attribute is a boolean with
> > "restart-required" set to "no-services".
> >
> > When I run
> >
> > /subsystem=jmx:write-attribute(name=non-core-mbean-sensitivity,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
> >
> > it works as expected, but
> >
> > /subsystem=undertow:write-attribute(name=statistics-enabled,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
> >
> > for instance, puts the server into the reload-required state.
> >
> > This is happening on several other places so I want to ask if it is a
> > desired behavior.
> >
> >
> > Martin Stefanko
> >
> > Associate Software Engineer
> > JBoss Sustaining Engineering Team
> > Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
> > _______________________________________________
> > wildfly-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>
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Re: allow-resource-service-restart=true

Darran Lofthouse
A problem that you quickly run into however is that supporting the
allow-resource-service-restart is that in a number of cases restarting a
service will have the effect of restarting half of the application
server anyway.

As an example if you restart any new security services the chances are
high that you either trigger a restart of all management related
services or all application related services.

So sometimes you may want to go one step further and support real time
updates to the underlying services - however we don't really have a flag
an administrator can use to say if real time updates should be applied.
I would imaging some administrators benefit from being able to apply
management model only changes and coordinate when they actually take effect.

Regards,
Darran Lofthouse.


On 08/11/16 12:00, Rostislav Svoboda wrote:

>
>> Not all operations handle the allow-service-restart header
>
> Sure, atm it depends a bit on the underlying service.
>
> @statistics-enabled
> Shouldn't be the goal to enable & disable stats without reload or restart required at all ?
> There are some people/customers which restart or reload their farm of servers only on planned days.
> For example for WS subsystem we can enable and disable without reload required, allow-resource-service-restart is to me just helper to avoid full reload.
>
> @Reduce reload-required in general
> I think some long-term effort is needed, less reload-required is better for end-user experience.
> This probably needs to be more RFE-ish.
>
> Regards.
> Rostislav
>
>>> On 4 Nov 2016, at 15:09, Martin Stefanko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am looking for help with the usage of the allow-resource-service-restart
>>> header. For the following examples each attribute is a boolean with
>>> "restart-required" set to "no-services".
>>>
>>> When I run
>>>
>>> /subsystem=jmx:write-attribute(name=non-core-mbean-sensitivity,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>>>
>>> it works as expected, but
>>>
>>> /subsystem=undertow:write-attribute(name=statistics-enabled,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>>>
>>> for instance, puts the server into the reload-required state.
>>>
>>> This is happening on several other places so I want to ask if it is a
>>> desired behavior.
>>>
>>>
>>> Martin Stefanko
>>>
>>> Associate Software Engineer
>>> JBoss Sustaining Engineering Team
>>> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
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Re: allow-resource-service-restart=true

Brian Stansberry
In reply to this post by Rostislav Svoboda

> On Nov 8, 2016, at 6:00 AM, Rostislav Svoboda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Not all operations handle the allow-service-restart header
>
> Sure, atm it depends a bit on the underlying service.
>
> @statistics-enabled
> Shouldn't be the goal to enable & disable stats without reload or restart required at all ?

Yes, that should be the goal.

Whether it is feasible depends on the underlying library that is being integrated.

> There are some people/customers which restart or reload their farm of servers only on planned days.
> For example for WS subsystem we can enable and disable without reload required, allow-resource-service-restart is to me just helper to avoid full reload.

+10 to allow-resource-service-restart=true just being a helper for power users or special situations. It’s not something we should be pushing users to use.

It’s not widely supported for the reasons Darran mentioned in his response; it can result in app outages and naive users may not understand that.

I’ve gone back and forth over the years on whether I think it is bad that our allow-resource-service-restart support is so limited. Right now I think it’s a small bit bad, as power users might like more of it. But I don’t think it’s a big deal; we have plenty of other bigger concerns.

>
> @Reduce reload-required in general
> I think some long-term effort is needed, less reload-required is better for end-user experience.
> This probably needs to be more RFE-ish.
>

It would be a bunch of things, not some single one. Support for this is dependent on what the underlying library can provide, so it needs to be handled one case at a time.

> Regards.
> Rostislav
>
>>> On 4 Nov 2016, at 15:09, Martin Stefanko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am looking for help with the usage of the allow-resource-service-restart
>>> header. For the following examples each attribute is a boolean with
>>> "restart-required" set to "no-services".
>>>
>>> When I run
>>>
>>> /subsystem=jmx:write-attribute(name=non-core-mbean-sensitivity,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>>>
>>> it works as expected, but
>>>
>>> /subsystem=undertow:write-attribute(name=statistics-enabled,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>>>
>>> for instance, puts the server into the reload-required state.
>>>
>>> This is happening on several other places so I want to ask if it is a
>>> desired behavior.
>>>
>>>
>>> Martin Stefanko
>>>
>>> Associate Software Engineer
>>> JBoss Sustaining Engineering Team
>>> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev

--
Brian Stansberry
Manager, Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat




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Re: allow-resource-service-restart=true

Brian Stansberry
In reply to this post by Darran Lofthouse

> On Nov 8, 2016, at 6:10 AM, Darran Lofthouse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A problem that you quickly run into however is that supporting the
> allow-resource-service-restart is that in a number of cases restarting a
> service will have the effect of restarting half of the application
> server anyway.
>
> As an example if you restart any new security services the chances are
> high that you either trigger a restart of all management related
> services or all application related services.
>
> So sometimes you may want to go one step further and support real time
> updates to the underlying services - however we don't really have a flag
> an administrator can use to say if real time updates should be applied.
> I would imaging some administrators benefit from being able to apply
> management model only changes and coordinate when they actually take effect.
>

This concern I think would be addressed via a completely separate feature. Get your own snapshot of the config that is not tied to the runtime at all, manipulate it, and publish it when ready.

I also think we are more and more moving to a world where the config is set up offline.

That said, when it comes to reducing reload-required and making more things immediately effective, priority should be given to things where the use case of the admin wanting a live update is more clear. Things related to diagnostics being a good example.

> Regards,
> Darran Lofthouse.
>
>
> On 08/11/16 12:00, Rostislav Svoboda wrote:
>>
>>> Not all operations handle the allow-service-restart header
>>
>> Sure, atm it depends a bit on the underlying service.
>>
>> @statistics-enabled
>> Shouldn't be the goal to enable & disable stats without reload or restart required at all ?
>> There are some people/customers which restart or reload their farm of servers only on planned days.
>> For example for WS subsystem we can enable and disable without reload required, allow-resource-service-restart is to me just helper to avoid full reload.
>>
>> @Reduce reload-required in general
>> I think some long-term effort is needed, less reload-required is better for end-user experience.
>> This probably needs to be more RFE-ish.
>>
>> Regards.
>> Rostislav
>>
>>>> On 4 Nov 2016, at 15:09, Martin Stefanko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I am looking for help with the usage of the allow-resource-service-restart
>>>> header. For the following examples each attribute is a boolean with
>>>> "restart-required" set to "no-services".
>>>>
>>>> When I run
>>>>
>>>> /subsystem=jmx:write-attribute(name=non-core-mbean-sensitivity,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>>>>
>>>> it works as expected, but
>>>>
>>>> /subsystem=undertow:write-attribute(name=statistics-enabled,value=true){allow-resource-service-restart=true}
>>>>
>>>> for instance, puts the server into the reload-required state.
>>>>
>>>> This is happening on several other places so I want to ask if it is a
>>>> desired behavior.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Martin Stefanko
>>>>
>>>> Associate Software Engineer
>>>> JBoss Sustaining Engineering Team
>>>> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev

--
Brian Stansberry
Manager, Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat




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